Interview with Nanami Shiono

“A Leader Needs Intelligence” –

Interviewer: Roman history is cited in many theories of leaders, organizations, and nations. How would you describe the ideal leader?

Shiono: Julius Caesar was equipped with five qualities—intelligence, persuasive power, stamina, persistent will, and self-control. A leader needs “an ability to see the invisible side of a phenomenon and to read others’ minds.” True leaders are also inspiring. They inspire others and their power inspires new ideas.

Interviewer: “Noblesse oblige” is frequently mentioned.

Shiono: The power of Rome came from its infrastructure that ensured the people’s security and from noblesse oblige. What the people need most is security. Then comes pride and a comfortable life. Roman leaders served to meet these needs.

Interviewer: The Romans had to conduct wars to achieve peace.

Shiono: The Romans won a large number of wars. However, they yielded after winning. What is important is that you cannot make order if you yield without winning. The Romans granted citizenship to the conquered and boldly hired them in key positions. A string of Roman emperors were descendents of the conquered. Rome was a kind of multinational company, whose software was Roman law.

Interviewer: What about Japanese politicians? As far as I know, you are a friend of former prime minister Junichiro Koizumi.

Shiono: When I first met him, he said his favorite quote was “A leader can lead the public to heaven when he knows the way to hell,” by Machiavelli. He laughed when I responded, “The leader goes to hell as he leads the public to heaven. Is this OK with you?”

“A Leader Should Choose His Words Carefully” –

Interviewer: I realized that a leader can make a great deal of difference when I watched new Prime Minister Shinzo Abe replace Koizumi.

Shiono: Politics is basically a battle and a drama. Directing is necessary. If you don’t like it and can’t do it, you should become a bureaucrat, not a politician.

Interviewer: It will be interesting to focus on leader’s words. Prime Minister Abe’s military sex slavery comments are being criticized.

Shiono: Prime Minister Abe speaks too much. He tries to explain his views too seriously and does not hide what he thinks. His recent comments were wrong. A politician in a high position should choose his words carefully. A leader should not say the first thing that pops into his head, because it will make the people unhappy.

Interviewer: In that respect, he stands opposed to Koizumi whose principle was “one phrase” politics.

Shiono: Koizumi chose his words well. He spoke clearly in single phrases and used words sparingly. The public can only make the right judgments after specific explanations. An abstract explanation leads to confusion. Abe, who reveals what he thinks sincerely, would make a better husband than a leader. It would be not easy to live with a husband like Koizumi (laughing).

Interviewer: What aides you have also seems important. Koizumi had Isao Iijima as his devoted secretary, and people point out that Abe does not have such a man at his disposal.

Shiono: Although politicians gather and scatter according to their interests, a leader attracts people with his personal charm.

“Korea Needs to Develop a Sustainable System” –

Interviewer: There are many Korean readers of your book, “The Story of the Romans.”

Shiono: It shows the level of Korean readers. I’m not boasting by saying the book is not easy to read. I lived on its royalties during my 15-year writing period, and in that sense, those who bought and read the book participated in my writing for 15 years.

Interviewer: What do you think of Korea?

Shiono: I’ve been to Korea twice. What I felt was that the sea (East Sea) between Korea and Japan makes a big difference. Japan, surrounded by the sea, was safe from invasion. The 300-year Tokugawa period was peaceful and leaders were able to make new attempts and accumulations in the long term. Korea could not make its own permanent system for 400 years and had to develop temporary measures. Maybe, this was because Korea had to live in constant awareness of its neighbor, China.

Interviewer: Even so, Korea has operated under independent state systems for 5,000 years. Whether it was 100 years ago or the present, it is true that Korea should find a way out of its current position – surrounded by great powers: U.S., Japan, China, and Russia.

Shiono: As seen in Korean food, I sometimes think that a problem with Korea is that there is generally little waste (useless efforts). Japanese food is characterized by elaborate but ultimately useless decoration. In many cases, however, new creativity is born out of similar useless efforts. There are few “surplus elements” in Korea.

Interviewer: Maybe it is because Koreans have busy lives.

Shiono: Watching the Tokyo world figure skating championships, I thought Kim Yu-na was better than the Japanese figure skaters who won the gold and silver medals. She skated elegantly. You cannot make it purely on effort. What if Kim falls down? In Japan, there are five more skaters at the same level, so if one collapses, another will step up. It is time to establish a similar system. This is true in everything, whether it be movies or the economy.

“Self-reflection through Failure Prevents Fundamentalism” –

Interviewer: “The Story of the Romans” is full of implications for the modern civilization. You said that your book was motivated by your curiosity for how “Pax Romana” was sustained in vast areas for more than 200 years.

Shiono: Rome was characterized by “freedom” and “tolerance.” These qualities come from polytheism. The Romans accepted the gods of the conquered. The number of gods worshiped in Rome amounted to 300,000. In contrast, monotheism is based on the idea that my religion is right while all others are wrong.

Interviewer: You pointed out that the Middle Ages have reappeared in modern times with clashes between Christianity and Islam.

Shiono: In case of Christianity, there have been opportunities for self-reflection as the West went through the Renaissance, Enlightenment, and two World Wars, but Islam has had no such opportunity. This is why fundamentalism is gaining power. It is scary.

Interviewer: East Asia’s situation is no better with the North Korea issue.

Shiono: Sometimes, I think that Korea (including North Korea) is too fundamentalist. It is inflexible. In that respect, Koreans are similar to the French rather than to the Italians. France does not think strategically but acts like “opposition to the U.S. is good.” You should think of what is the most beneficial to your own country.

“The international community, too, needs a leader”-

Interviewer: These days, the term “Sandwich Nation” has become a Korean buzzword.

Shiono: Japan is poor at making friends with foreign countries. They’re not good at talking. Their weakness is in the abstract, like democracy and freedom, but they make good products instead. When Japan calls itself a great power, I laugh. Korea and Japan are both mediocre. We need to unite forces. We must do so, especially with the rise of China. China calling itself a great power is also laughable. Even now Italy is worried about organized illegal immigration from China. Is there a great power that makes so little of being nuisance to another country? We need to take a good look at history to see what will happen if China reigns supreme.

Interviewer: You seem to have an unfavorable evaluation of China.

Shiono: From 2nd to 3rd century B.C., Rome and China were on par in terms of technology. But they did different things. While Rome claimed, “All roads lead to Rome” and built roads and supplied water even for its foreign lands, China built the Great Wall. The difference between an open empire and a closed one is immense.

Interviewer: The historical problems between Korea and Japan have lasted over 60 years but haven’t been solved yet.

Shiono: Naturally, all nations have differing interpretations of history. But we can share the ‘facts’ and understand each other. A good example is director Clint Eastwood’s two movies, released last year, which dealt with the battle for Iwo Jima. Out of a U.S.-Japan war story, he made two movies. European history schools call this ‘Columbus’ egg.’ It’s easy, but nobody thought of it. It’s the same with the comfort women problem. It’s important to figure out the truth.

Interviewer: What are your plans for the future?

Shiono: I’m planning to use 15 years’ worth of vacation this year. Growing old means having to give up your potential bit by bit. However optimistic I am about it, I have about 10 years left to write now. This year, I’m going to think about what I’m going to do in those 10 years. Another thing, I will translate ‘The Story of the Romans’ into English.

sya@donga.com